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Home Bible Study: $12,000 and 60 Days in Prison

Written by Gary North on July 10, 2012

The petty tyrants love to show how powerful they are. They beat up on little people. Bullies always do.

Here is a story. In Phoenix, a man has been sentenced to 60 days in jail, plus a fine of over $12,000. His “crime”? He held Bible studies in his home.

Every week, 15 to 20 people have come to his home to read the Bible. This has been going on since 2005. well, the authorities could not tolerate this any longer. These meetings were not licensed by the government.

So, the city set in a dozen armed men to clean out this obvious sleeper cell of Bible fanatics.

He was charged with 67 violations

The city wants a 2.5-year sentence without parole. This man must be taught a lesson.

The nooses are tightening constantly. The life Americans enjoyed 40 years ago is being removed.

We live in SWAT-team America.

Continue Reading on endoftheamericandream.com

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85 thoughts on “Home Bible Study: $12,000 and 60 Days in Prison

  1. I wonder if the authorities would arrest you for throwing tupperware parties, jewelry or Amway product parties?

  2. goldendragon2012 says:

    Is it time to leave yet, already? Or are the nooses not quite tight enough, yet?

  3. I would like more information on this before posting an opinion……could someone post all the details concerning this…if this is factual, then it's high time WE as christian American citizens stand up together and be heard!

  4. Reporting on things like this without a means of fighting is useless.

    Someone desperately needs to gather petitions "without contributions solicited at the end", which make people feel their vote doesn't count and like they are being taken.

    A name on a list requires no work on the part of a webmaster if properally set up.

    Thanks for the report anyway, I just get frustrated from so much reporting but no rallying of troops.

    mosescats

  5. Where is the separation of church and state? Are they legally allowed to interfere with a peaceful bible study on private property? I hope at least one of the pro christian law firms come to the aid of this man and his family. Also who wrote and passed such an ordinance the prohibited bible studies in your own home with invited guests. Whoever is resposible of this atrocity should be removed from office immediately, jailed and fined. The fines should not come out of city funds, but out of the pockets of those involved. Also find out who turned in the complaint and deal with them too.

  6. I thought it was separation of church and state.

  7. Remember the Romans cast Paul and others into prison too.

  8. The question no one seems to be asking: Is how has America, whose 17th-century roots are unequivocally Christian, become so anti-Christian? The answer is simple, albeit, it won't be popular, particularly with most conservative Christians: The humanistic (Preamble), anti-Christian (Article 6), polytheistic enabling (Amendment 1) United States Constitution.

    It was inevitable that the First Amendment's provision for the freedom of religion (AKA polytheism) had to eventually take aim at monotheistic Christianity. This explains, in part, the Constitutional Republic's selective persecution against Christianity, much the same as was found in ancient Rome.

  9. What the First Amendment to the Constitution says is: Congress shall make no law establishing religion or restricting the free exercise thereof, (the comma means 'on second thought let's add this too) or of free speech…

    In other words congress was more concerned about the Federal government interfering with religious activities than speech activities.

  10. shearwater says:

    This is what happens when a bunch of stupid people are elected to make the laws. The judge should be impeached. The city should be ashamed and rescind the order/law/rule.

  11. Bill in NC says:

    It's essentially a zoning law violation.

    IIRC, he built a 2,000 sqft. building on his property for the meetings but lied about the purpose on the building permit application.

    I'm not sure we want to rush to the defense of someone who feels it is OK to lie in such a public manner while claiming to be Christian.

  12. bobbie reynolds says:

    Jesus 'said we wound be perscuted for his name.

  13. undunder says:

    So, if a guy build a home and decides to have a Bible study in his home, that is a zoning violation? So if his kids decide to have an algebra study session every week to help them pass a class, that is a zoning violation too? So, the government now says who a guy can and can't invite into his home regardless of the reason? On the flip side, does that mean also, that the government can say who may or may not be forced into your home? If you don't allow a certain person(s) into your home, they will tax you now that taxes can be used as penalties rather than as merely revenue to support the government which is what taxes are supposed to be for? Welcome to what used to be America.

  14. There really is not enough information here to conclude anything. What was the alleged justification for the raid? What was going on in the house? Was the bible reading a "cover" for something? There is NO WAY I can justify the raid as described, but I get the feeling something is missing in the story…

  15. I agree with you, there are too many things being reported on the net, that actually may not be true. I think anything like this should be backed with facts, and were you can find out all the information needed to prove that these kind of things are actually happening.

  16. You are absolutely correct. What a lot of people seem to forget or not know at all, is that the amendment was made to protect religion from the government. The people who started this country came to get away from government controlled religion in England, not religion controlled government.

  17. R LeFever says:

    Yes, they probably would, if it was an ongoing activity and the building you were using didn't have enough fire exits for the number of people you were hosting. The authorities DID NOT charge him withe Bible study. It was strictly FIRE CODE violations. This is just a "stir the pot article." Time to get real folks….

  18. Texas Chris says:

    Fire code violations IN HIS OWN HOME. In his house.

    Then the fire department showed up and told the 20+ people IN HIS BACK YARD that they had to leave because of fire code violations. IN HIS BACK YARD!!!

    This guy is going to get millions in a settlement. Lets see how many Bible studies he can hold with that.

  19. Texas Chris says:

    You gotta fight… For your right… To stuuuuuuuuuuudyyyyyyyyy!

  20. Texas Chris says:

    Two stories up on The Blaze.

  21. When I read this I was reminded of a book that was published back in 1973 by a Soviet defector named Sergei Kourdakov – who worked for KGB from 1968 to 1970 & conducted such raids in the Soviet Far East – he & his men would routinely break into homes that were suspected of conducting Bible studies & having prayer meetings – the KGB was deathly afraid of people like this because they constituted a direct threat to communist rule – in the case of the "Believers"(as the KGB called them) they went straight to jail & had their property confiscated – if after getting out they still persisted in spreading the Word – then they were sent to a concentration camp(gulag) for many years & if they survived their sentence they were then exiled to a different part of the Soviet Union & prohibited from returning to their hometown – I never thought that the U.S.A. would evolve into something resembling the old Soviet Union – may God help us!(if it's not too late already)

  22. This is absolutely INSANITY……….that SOB in our oval office has done more that's against the law, than this poor guy, I STILL SAY EVERY DOG HAS HIS DAY, The WORM will turn.

  23. Texas Chris says:

    Keep in mind that, if the 1st Amendment failed, the 2nd Amendment was there as a safety net.

  24. Texas Chris says:

    No, this is what happens when the government is founded on a document that in and of itself is a giant power grab. While the constitution claims to limit government, what it actually did was massively increase the size and scope of government.

  25. Texas Chris says:

    Private friggin property. It was on four acres. It's not like he was interfering with traffic, or casusing a disturbance. Four acres… If every structure on that property caught fire, It wasn't gonna endanger anyone else's property.

    This is obvious city government overreach.

    Preacher's gonna get paid.

  26. jammin2011 says:

    I also would like to know more. Were there 20 cars parked on the street every week? Because I guess that would agravate me a little if I lived next door. If that were the case, they could park in a big parking lot and car pool to the house. There are free rooms at libraries. And rooms don't cost much at city recreation centers. That would be a good alternative.

  27. Texas Chris says:

    Read the stories. Guy was having Bible study in his house, which sits on 4 acres. City cites him for "code violations". Guy gets building permits and builds a 2,000sqft structure to hold the study. City cites him again. Guy hold party outside for church members. Fire department shows up and tells them to leave, fire code violations…

    What you do in your home is your business.

  28. Bill in NC says:

    Nonsense.

    He is hosting not twenty, but at least a HUNDRED and twenty people a week in that building (NOT in his home).

    He received a building permit for a private use facility (converting his garage to a game room), not public use.

    Buildings for public use MUST meet local zoning and fire code regulations.

    Yes, even if it is a church – my church had to do hundreds of thousands of dollars of work on a local warehouse we purchased to use as a satellite church.

    He even refers to himself as a pastor – so, did he sin by lying on that building permit application?

    He knew the zoning laws when he bought the property, is Gary's argument really that he should be free to ignore them?

    Hey, neighbor, I'd like to build a rendering plant, or puppy mill in my backyard – surely you won't mind?

  29. For more, see Chapter 11 "Amendment 1: Government-Sanctioned Polytheism" of "Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective." Click on my name; go to our Online Book Page; see top entry and scroll down to Chapter 11. Also, don't miss our Constitution Survey in the right-hand side column by which you can receive a free copy of the 85-page "Primer" of the book mentioned above.

  30. Shadow, there is enough information here. Government wants to control those who exercise their religious freedom. Phoenix, AZ thinks they can get by with this and they will if we let them. This needs to be appealed to the state of AZ and hopefully we will pray most of all, for these people who are being witch-hunted for possibly breaking local ordinances which conflict with their constitutional rights as Americans.

    Secondly, hopefully, the ACLJ an other organizations and churches will support them in any way possible.

  31. Arley Steinhour says:

    It seems we have a two headed coin being required to pay Nero the penalty, or better yet, a two-edged sword, that, no matter who swings it, the sword cuts both ways, so to speak.
    First Amendment : "… free exercise thereof." Everyone, Faithful to God, or Atheist, of choice, 'know' Civil law does not over-rule the Constitution, so, why are so many 'tests' being thrown at the Constitution???????
    A thought: 'Good for the Goose, is Good for the Gander:' Litigation will make abundantly clear that 'Religion' is sacrosanct, and then the hammer drops…….Islam is a 'religion.' They will demand, equal application, stating that Sharia is part of their religion, and bring the demands that all people must subscribe to, or at a minimum (for the time being) 'Honor' their religion, and way of expressing their 'religious-lifestyle.'
    This problem, as near as I can tell, is going to haunt our Constitutional lives, far more than presently meets the eye, and, IMHO, before this is over, the First Amendment will be sporting a 'black-eye,' from the legal beating it is about to take; which indicates, to me, at least, just how close I/we (of Christian Faith) are to being Snatched away to a Wedding Feast,,,,,but I won't go there,,,,lest my post be removed…..another minute, another channel,,,and I continue to Praise my way HOME. AMEN

  32. Doesn't matter if it's private property or not. Any building that hosts a public function must adhere to city safety laws. What if the building actually caught fire? People could have been trapped and killed. You think that's city government overreach?

  33. Keith Mathison says:

    The Establishment Clause: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” Prohibits an establishment of a national denomination which was the problem America faced when part of Great Britain. The Free Exercise Clause: “Congress shall make no law… prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The Federal Government was required to protect (not prevent, not suppress, not prohibit) the free exercise of religious (public and private) expressions.
    “Separation of Church and State” are words not found in the First Amendment nor words ever discussed by the 90 framers of the First Amendment. Jefferson said there was a “wall of separation of church and state” to prevent government interference in the church and protect public religious expressions. Separation meant limiting the government and protecting (not removing) the free exercise of the church (all denominations) in public and private life. All denominations are to be safe from Governmental encroachment and the city needs to protect not prohibit this Bible Study.

  34. Bureaucracy and over regulation is killing the American dream!

  35. Jeremy Scott says:

    We must always remember to respect the rulers and the laws of our land. We’re commanded to by Jesus, and even Paul admonishes us to respect our government. If this was remembered by Christians more often, these incidents would not happen.

  36. i had heard of this before but i thought it was here in calif. which sounds normal for here ,but to get to the point the law likely wasn't written to say bible study but to limit the number of vehicles because they knew they were bible study group

  37. these people are not especially stupid they are communist and try to make you believe they don't belive in god and will go to great extremes to convince you of their beliefs

  38. wlllbjr5 says:

    OK, people action is called for! I do not know what can be done about thi8s in the short term; however for the long term people of a christian nature need to become active in local politics and run for every city council and or county commissions or local legislative boby by what ever name it goes by to rescind and remove these laws! This is the only way to get rid of it Religious people of Phoenix and many othr places.

  39. Mary Leake says:

    More info. The above article left out a lot. http://christiannews.net/arizona-preacher-facing-

  40. you need to pay more attention to who we have as president and in the senate

  41. i know i keep hammering on the same subject but you have to understand that the communist took over the democrat party it started in 1913 and has PROGRESSED ever since as Allen West said there are at least 70 communist in congress and they will try to laugh him out like the Joe McCarthy back in the fifties

  42. Magnolia says:

    Take church out of politics and you have a Godless, lawless nation. Jefferson NEVER meant this — his purpose was to prevent our government from establishing a national religion, as it is in England. This story is incomplete. This man's Bible study group outgrew his home and he built a "church building" in back of his home, which most likely violated residential zoning laws.

  43. SilverFox says:

    My home has been known to hold 50 people. once……but no one room could do so. How about yours? Yes, and where did they park their cars? So, where did these people gather. Perhaps, outside? week after week? One case in California was doing just that. Use of mega phones? Any consideration for the neighbors? I do think more is going on here. And I don't think it is religious persecution by anyone. Any group that has become too large, and meet on a regular monthly bases, should consider a move to a more comfortable place, or brake up into smaller cells.

  44. The story is a distortion of the truth! In short the same kind of rebel rousing lie the media used against Zimmerman and no less excusable! The people had %)-^) people over for bible study every week. What room of their mansion is large enough to hold all these people? There was none so thay built a church in their back yard to accomodate them. Call it a club house if you wias, but it was not inside their home as the criers would have you believe! Where did they park this gathering of auto? In the street? The story does not say, nor does it say the impact on their neighbors lives. When your frteedom starts enfringing that of others , the freedom of the others MUST bge protected!. I am Conservative, very conservative, which is why I demand the truth, even from the conservative media. Gary north did not provide it which brings his credentials and motives into question. Maybe he should have listened to the story from the perpetrators mouth. He revealed on national TV all that I stated above!

  45. That was 50-60 people over for weekly bible study!

  46. JPaul120 says:

    Gary North is losing more and more credibility (at least with me) as he fails to research his articles or even back them up with original sources. Merely borrowing from another blog who has no more interest in research than he does, doesn't cut the mustard. It makes me wonder about his book that's sitting on my shelf and how much of the facts have been cut out. I have no problem with opinion pieces that are decisively slanted and biased, but when pertinent facts are left unchecked, there is a problem.

    As it turns out, Salman constructed a 2,000 sq foot building behind his house on his 1.5 acre lot. At least 30 to 40 people gather regularly. At first I was infuriated as I read the article above as it alleges that the city was intent on his arrest for meeting with believers in his home, after all, for years I hosted and lead Bible studies in my own home as well. But before I posted it on facebook, I wanted to check the facts. Why doesn't Gary check the facts and present the whole story. I understand that Gary is a libertarian, and opposes heavy regulations such as the numerous zone and fire violations Phoenix has brought against Salman, but that's a different argument altogether. The fact is, community laws are nothing new. When we live in a city or village, no surprise, there will be laws. If my neighbor decided to have communist propaganda open air meetings in front of his house with a PA system, I think there would be a serious problem. If he wanted to meet every week, I would be really annoyed. This is not a perfect parallel to the above scenario, but I think it makes my point about community ordinances. We're talking about common courtesy here. Sometimes in our zeal of evangelism we forget about that.
    http://www.azfamily.com/news/saavedra/Phoenix-fam
    (Includes video footage of the church)
    http://global.christianpost.com/news/ariz-preache
    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012

  47. JPaul120 says:

    Having credentials is not so much the question as being too lazy to do some personal investigation and then comes the balanced reporting.

  48. It looks like the inmates are running the asylum (Phoenix). This is disgusting!

  49. JPaul120 says:

    Does the American dream include broadcasting from a PA system in your front yard in an urban neighborhood? You may be surprised to learn that I myself once seriously considered such a thing with my own home Bible study. My goal was to evangelize. I'm glad to say that in my reluctance, I realized it was not the best plan. I haven't read the long list of code violations involved with Salman, perhaps he was conducting quite and discrete Bible studies with his close friends, but I kind of doubt it.

  50. JPaul120 says:

    If there were 40 of you meeting every week in a large building built in an urban neighborhood not zoned as commercial, then probably.

  51. This is a totally over blow article. If 20 car were in from of my house every week I would care what they were they for I would be turning them in.

  52. JPaul120 says:

    93 people have signed the petition so far, Make sure you do your own investigation before you sign.
    http://global.christianpost.com/news/ariz-preache

  53. Article is bs. If you lie by omission of facts, it is a lie. A 2k sq ft building be built on the property is a rather relative fact that needed to be mentioned… Not good

  54. poor one says:

    to hell with our government. they dont know what God will do to them.

  55. JPaul120 says:

    Where did you see four acres? It was 1.5 acres from what I've read.
    http://global.christianpost.com/news/ariz-preache

    Who said it wasn't causing a disturbance? It was neighbors that complained.
    http://www.azfamily.com/news/saavedra/Phoenix-fam

    Chances are, the fire code is there to protect those inside the building. Is it a government overreach? Probably. Is it discrimination? I don't think so.

  56. JPaul120 says:

    Calm down, Bill. You're right, but the problem is that Gary did not do an adequate job in his reporting. His article is creating quite a stir because of it.

    And where did you read that he had 120 attendees per week?

  57. JPaul120 says:

    Unfortunately, Gary North did not do his research. Check out the Christian Post if you like: http://global.christianpost.com/news/ariz-preache

  58. JPaul120 says:

    So you think that it should be alright for your next door neighbor to put his mega-watt home stereo system on his front porch and play Rev Moon's sermons at full blast every evening? City ordinances are not necessarily in place to stifle free speech. Some of them are to offer some semblance of order and common courtesy for all the members of the community.

  59. JPaul120 says:

    Not an intentional lie, just lazy reporting. Truth seeking Christians should do better. I wanted to share this on fb so I investigated the story first. Now I know enough to know that the guy had it coming, right or wrong.

  60. G W Bush claims to be a Christian,what liar he was.

  61. I wonder which Christian will stand up and lead the group? Is there anyone at all?

  62. Bill McCroskey says:

    I read the various comments here about zoning law violations and a 2,000 sq. ft. building etc. I would only ask one question of the city authorities. If this had been some type of islamic meeting/prayer group,or some type of hispanic heritage program (read Mexican) in some type of peaceful gathering would this been enforced in the SAME way ? My gut instincts tell me no … I think it would have been handled in a much less confrontational way by the branch of government that ordered the raid.

  63. 1. Listen to TruNews with Rick Wiles.
    2. Listen to The PowerHour with Joyce Riley.
    3. Listen to Politics & Religion with Irvine Baxter.

  64. Double Ace says:

    One day they will send a dozen armed men and it won't be enough, then two dozen and it won't be enough. At some point they will run out of armed men who are willing to die for such a stupid reason. have you ever noticed that police officers very seldom stop people who look angry or mean, driving around in old beat up cars. Usually they are stoping the mom and pops or the young boys and girls. Police officers aren't that stupid, and even when they do stop the mean people the outcome is seldom good for the cops. Bullies are only bullies when they have a certain upper hand in numbers or weapons. Seldom are the bullies if it is a fair fight.

  65. Double Ace says:

    I been to Phoenix before. Seems to me they have many other events occurring in that city that could use a dozen armed men to correct/prevent it. Maybe they should start arresting people who are actually breaking the law, and stop harassing citizens who are doing nothing more than reading the Bible at home. Easy to arrest people who don't believe in violence though.

  66. Double Ace says:

    Why in God's name does he need a permit to build something on his own property. That is the first question that should be asked. It is his property. Second, maybe he didn't lie, maybe he intended it for another purpose and later decided to use it for a Bible study. You sound like one of the neighbors who called big brother on these people.

  67. cedricward says:

    Gary North should INCLUDE ALL THE FACTS before posting these HIGHLY PREJUDICIAL articles:
    Sentenced: Michael Salman, ordained Church of God in Christ (COGIC) minister; pastor, Harvest Christian Fellowship (also: Facebook); and owner, Mighty Mike’s Burgers, Phoenix, Arizona; to 60 days in jail and three years of probation for “representing as a church on his home property without securing the proper permits,” reports the Christian Post. azfamily.com reports: “Inside a back building on his property … is a pulpit and chairs — room for the 30 to 40 who gather here weekly. Still Salman insists this is no public church. … Inspectors say for what Salman was doing, he needed dozens of building and safety updates. All Salman says he was doing was practicing freedom of religion. The court disagreed. … The Maricopa County Prosecutor’s Office tells 3TV that this is not a religious freedom issue, but that Salman has consistently refused to comply with building codes and safety standards that are required by law.” In one of his protest videos posted to YouTube (under the alias “Kryptologos”), Salman declares: “I’m a criminal because I’m a Christian.”
    The Christian Post also notes that “the Salmans have launched an online petition on Change.org directed to the ‘Mayor and City Council’ of Phoenix. So far, only 93 visitors have signed the petition, which needs 100,000 supporters.” That may be because angry neighbors are upset about his building a 4,200-square-foot structure up against the property line, according to a lengthy 2008 profile in the Phoenix New Times, which quotes several neighbors, including one who recounted a neighborhood meeting with Salman: “He gave us a lecture on the fact that all of us were going to make money on our property, and if we were true Christians, we ought to be willing to sacrifice a little bit. … That meeting is where the real animosity started. He made no effort at being conciliatory or cooperative. That really united the neighbors against him. He was his own worst enemy.”
    The New Times also reports that Salman — who has been divorced, yet is reportedly vehemently opposed to marriage equality — is a former gang member with a prison record, and was once arrested for impersonating a police officer, purportedly in order to scare a boy who was “fooling around” with a girl in Salman’s church. Two years earlier, Salman, “hoping to scare the hell out of a kid who’d been messing with his girlfriend’s little brother,” reportedly “donned a Raiders T-shirt and fired five rounds from a .38 special into the kid’s house,” nearly hitting the boy’s mother. He was found guilty of aggravated assault and sentenced to six years in prison. Also: “In 1994, Salman had filed paperwork claiming that he belonged to the Embassy of God. That meant, the document claimed, that he didn’t need to follow United States law.”
    Salman has not yet begun his 60-day sentence; when he surrended June 16th, jail officials “inexplicably” sent him home. Story: Phoenix New Times, January 17, 2008; Phoenix New Times, April 15, 2011; azfamily.com, June 19, 2012; Phoenix New Times, June 20, 2012; Christian Post, June 21, 2012. See also: “Dips— of the Week,” (language NSFW), an eye-opening video dissecting Salman’s video-sermons, which claims that Salman is in favor of “assassination” in some instances, and condones the assassination of Dr. George Tiller.

  68. Double Ace says:

    Somehow I doubt that following the muslim in the White House is the answer.

  69. Double Ace says:

    You say it is a distortion of the truth, yet you do not tell us the truth in your post. If you know it is a distortion then you have to know what the truth is. How about you enlighten us all?

  70. Alan C Rohner says:

    Christianity…the last great minority.

  71. Well 15 – 2- people parking their autos in a neighborhood is a little excessive. It crowds out those who do live there during the time a Bible study is being coinducted. That many people showing up in a neighborhood regularly each week is something that should be resolved by using a meeting hall with a parking lot. It shows a total disregard for his neighbors. But jail time and fine? That to is excessive to say the least on the part of the legal system, and the prosecutor wanted 2.5 years sentence? He is a liberal idiot and needs to kicked out of the country.

  72. Richard Opp says:

    If this is really the case, then why are people moaning and groaning about it, he got what he deserved!! Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight. Proverbs 12:22!

  73. Jerri Lynn Ward says:

    Mr. Salman responded to the issues of parking and how far he is away from his neighbors at another story:

    "We thank you for your support. Please continue passing the word. The Jail kicked me out when I reported claiming they do not have such a violation code in their computer. Praise God!! It is important to point out that when people come to our home all the cars park on our lot behind a gate. We own 1.5 acreas with an additional 3.2 acres in the back. Our home is 3600 square feet with an additional 2000 square foot building. The nearest home is about 100 feet from our home. We live across the street from a park that is about 1 block square and we live on an arterial street. We have at least 2500 cars a day pass in front of our home. This is not about zoning, building, parking, traffic or noise. This is about religion. The City in sworn testimony stated: "Bible studies in a living room require a change of occupancy but Birthday parties do not." according to the City it does not matter if it is private or public. We say NAY NAY!! You can not place commerical public code on private gatherings. Whether you label us as a "church" or not. Private is different than public. So we continue the fight all the way up if we need to. Please continue to spread the word! Please sign petition!! Please share!! https://www.change.org/petitions/free-michael-sal… less" http://global.christianpost.com/news/ariz-preache

    It is more than a little disturbing to me that purported conservatives above are agreeing with the government as to what is public and what is private. What is wrong with using a "game room" for a home church? Home churches are private in every sense of the word in that the worshippers are invited into the home.

  74. soxpatfan says:

    How long a "train of abuses" (as is written in the Declaration) will be tolerated before the inevitable result is reached….. when a free people have had enough??

  75. Arizona Don says:

    Correct Don39.

    I really do not know what happened here I haven’t heard anything about it. However, here is my thinking. If he did not build a structure as you say the police were wrong and it sounds like a police state. If however, on the other hand he did violate the law by building a structure without a permit “he” is wrong and some action should have been taken against him.

    What I like about you report is this, if this were a liberal progressive report which also blow things out of proportion at times, no progressive would have spoken up and pointed out the truth. And everyone would have defended the story. Now I know its not fair to paint everyone with the same brush but sometimes it does seem that way.

    I'm sure some of the neighbors also complained and gave meaning and purpose to the problem.

  76. Arizona Don says:

    Since it is said this story is not actually correct it lends itself to removing all Gary North’s credibility. I don’t know about anyone else but I think if a reporter is not concerned about the true facts they should not be allowed to report. That is one of the serious problems we are having here in the US right now. A president and supporters who will not allow any truth to be told! Sad, very sad that this great country could morally slip so low.

    How will it be possible to believe anything Gary says from now on?

  77. JPaul120 says:

    Thanks for posting this. It is good to hear both sides. I do however disagree with Salman's stated intentions, I think he is being less than honest. If his gatherings are not open to the public, I will shoot myself in the foot. Public gathering places are regulated by local codes, like it or not. This is the reason why many prefer to live out in the country. No evangelistic Christian is going to build a 2,000 foot building exclusively for his own personal close friends and family to use. Furthermore, if this was a game room for his friends to hang out after church, then what church does he attend?

    I for one do not like city officials to dictate what people can or cannot do on their property and then regulate what they can and cannot build. After I bought my property I tore off the rotten porch only to discover that according to code my house was too close to the sidewalk to build another one. I built one the same dimensions anyway. Then I tore down a garage that was connected to the house and discovered that the existing structure filled to high of a percentage of my land to build anything else. City codes are a nuisance, but they comes with the community. Of course they can be changed by getting involved and by petitions. It is good to do your investigation before purchasing.

  78. jammin2011 says:

    Yes!

  79. JPaul120 says:

    I saw this article when I was doing my own research. This blogger clearly does not know anything about the miracle of God's grace and how it can change a man's life. One look at his blogs and you will see how much of an angry skeptic he is. He completely blurs any distinction in Salman's actions before and after his conversion. Notice how he quotes from the liberal slanted New Times which condemns Salman for being a former shoot 'em up gang member instead of praising him for reforming his ways and not only being a productive citizen, but wanting to reach out to the community. Tragically, he actually supports traditional marriage.Then he concludes by attempting to demonize Salman and enshrine George Tiller as a martyr for secular humanism. Come on, the guys got an axe to grind.

  80. Bill in NC says:

    His studies are clearly open to the public at large.

    Such an obvious false claim that these gatherings are 'private' again begs the question is he morally fit to serve as a pastor?

  81. Texas grandmother says:

    {A guest opinion} I believe more information is really needed to be completely believed. If its true, then look out for enemy! I was told last wek by a friend that the Demorats in Congress and probably the Senate are card carrying Communists! Could you believe this. Maybe? What next? OMG

  82. I'm not going to say that the Democrats are "card-carrying Communists" – HOWEVER – if you you look at both organizations they believe in the same things: 1. Government knows best what's good for you. 2. They believe that the average person is too stupid to know how to run their own lives(that ties back to number one). 3. Essential services like healthcare are best provided for by the government(Soviet healthcare was very bad & now that Obamacare has been upheld by the Supreme Court we'll be headed in the same direction). 4. Taxes will be high(somebody's got to pay for all this free stuff!). 5. Wealthy people will be eliminated either by confiscating their wealth by taxation or in the case of the Soviets they were simply shot and/or exiled to Siberia to starve to death. Communists believe that everyone should be equal – equally poor! Democrats believe that wealth disparities are not fair & so the wealthy or well-off should be punished for their success – both organizations are NOT the same BUT they believe in many of the same things…

  83. The link is right under the article! Read it!

  84. patriotindisguise says:

    I read this site a lot, and am perplexed why an incomplete story was posted. Headlines such as "imprisoned for preaching" and "jailed for Bible studies" are the teasers for liberal and conservative sides alike, all based upon the presumed removal of some sort of liberty for poor Michael. These "freedom reporters" are doing all Americans a serious disservice when cases such as this are broadcast as actual attacks on personal rights. Are you starting to see the twisted way information is presented, even in the alternative media, on issues close to the heart such as personal freedoms? These fractured presentations are dangerous to the actual complaints involving loss of freedoms, in that every such claim becomes another who has "cried wolf" when liberty is in jeopardy. From where I sit, "poor Michael" was the one encroaching on personal rights- the rights of his neighbors. http://phoenix.gov/news/071212salmanfacts.html

    This case is not about freedom of religion. Read everything completely. Be careful that you don't side with the wrong wolf.

  85. Concerned says:

    http://youtu.be/T7tpX6oXZwA Video of the Salmans detailing the circuitous route the government has led them down. Private use that treats religious worship differently than other private gatherings.

    Link to American Family Association interview: http://youtu.be/c_SzU-moESY