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450 Million Hollow-Point Bullets: Department of Homeland Security

Written by Gary North on March 30, 2012

Question: Why has the Department of Homeland Security ordered 450 million hollow-point bullets?

Answer: Because American voters are dum-dums.

I’ve got a million of ’em! I’ve got 450 million of ’em!

Here is a press release.

ATK Wins Five-Year, Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity Contract for .40 Caliber Ammunition from DHS, ICE

Additional .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with 450 Million Round Potential Demonstrates ATK’s Leadership in Ammunition Manufacturing

ANOKA, Minn., March 12, 2012 /PRNewswire/ — ATK (NYSE: ATK) announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

For the record, ICE is the U.S. Immigration, Customs, and Enforcement Agency.

Why do the DHS and ICE need this many rounds of ammunition? What scenario are they planning for? It would be nice to know. I would like to do a little planning for this scenario.

This is an election year. Members of Congress are very busy. It would be too much to expect to hope that an oversight committee (or five) would bring in the directors of both agencies, place them under oath (rare in hearings), and ask them to produce the written plans outlining the scenarios that mandate 450 million rounds of dum-dums.

Dum-dums are bullets that expand on contact. They produce horrible wounds inside the body. The standard military round does not expand. The use of dum-dums has been prohibited by international laws of warfare ever since 1899.

They are legal for the DHS and ICE to use in domestic warfare.

Who are the proposed targets?

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98 thoughts on “450 Million Hollow-Point Bullets: Department of Homeland Security

  1. Citizen60 says:

    If they can't cull the herd by Obamacare, they need a plan B.

  2. Mike Maull says:

    The use of hollow points for law enforcement Is due to over penetration.

  3. it dont matter how many they order they still cant hit what they aim at.they better order some more

  4. Hopefully they only bought the bullets and not the complete cartridges.

  5. Dum-dums are bullets with a cross cut into the lead to split on entrance. Hollow points are just that. The lead has a hole partially through the nose of the bullet. Hollow points are not dum-dums.

  6. lilbear68 says:

    this will help to bring down the cost for civilian purchases too

  7. sean murry says:

    Are we the targets?

  8. martin fee says:

    I see your. 40. Hp. And raise you my 400 grain .50 cal Beowulf. Here is a little help for people thw. 40 hollow point will not penetrate 1/4" plate unless it is very close range you can pick up a plate carrier for 50 bucks and by 10 x 13 1/4 " plate from any steel shop for 40 bucks. This makes most of their ammo nothing more than a waste of taxpayer money

  9. Looks like a severe case of lead poisioning headed our way.

  10. Bruce M Winthrop says:

    Well folks Welcome to the world of Communism!

    My brother has often said that we have the goverment that we deserve.

    That is because the Americans is too DAM LAZY to get off of their dam asses and do something about it.We keep putting these blasted dictators into office.

    You know that you can write your reps and complain. And if that does not work

    DON’T VOTE FOR THEM !!!!!!.

  11. You betcha Martin. We know 40hp are not meant to penetrate steel plating and most will not buy any plating because so many sheeple will not believe the DHS would ever plan to use them on the population is the event of a failure {currency,etc] in this country. I hope to be elsewhere when DHS reveals their real plans to the sheeple…hooah

  12. Big Daddy says:


  13. yup,hollow points are what I use most of the time and they do the job, but are not dum dums, Hollow points go splat )]]]] and dum dums rotate @@@@@@@@@ … these is the only things I could find to illustrate what happens so excuse my syntax

  14. Innundate your representatives with irate emails, faxes, letters and phone calls (especially the last two). Daily if you can!!

  15. lilbear,I really like this post, I pay way too much for my hollow points. lower cost for big holes, very cool

  16. Why is this a issue, is my math wrong?

    450 Million divide by 5 = 90 Million.

    90 Million divided by 200,00 = 450

    Another point not mentioned is the training of airline pilots.

    How many of you people fire more than 450 rounds a year?

    My home town police force dose.

    My County Deputies do.

    I Do!

  17. yeah, rotsa ruck on that one.

  18. Perhaps its time to invest in lead and copper company shares?

    All of the government armed swat teams should be disbanded. Even the Child protective agency has armed swats

  19. bullrider says:

    Very concerning, but I would be a lot more worried if they ordered that many rounds of shotgun ammo.

  20. What is 200,00? If you mean 200,000, the math is correct. What does the 200,000 represent.? There are not 200,000 armed agents.

  21. coneyisland says:

    Just what weapon will they use these 40 calibur bullets in?????Is this what the Glock uses?

  22. I have not voted for them, but too many other dummies have been blinded and/or do not investigate or check their voting records in Congress. We have one, in particular, that when she won the election, I was disgusted. She voted AGAINST families completely across the board. The other one that I did not vote for, when one sends letters or emails sends a prewritten reply that suits him, doesn't even address the point of the letter sent to him. (Please forgive the poor grammar in this, but I really get pretty angry about these subjects.)

  23. Read my above comment, Noni. My letters and complaints have done NO GOOD.

  24. Hopefully, they will be FOR the people and NOT for the government agencies.

  25. Think about it, remember all those coffins and body bags they ordered a few months ago. How they going to fill all them with no bullets. If they don't fill them with bodies, the public is going to complain about wasting money on the coffins and body bags.

  26. Gerd,
    There are 200,000 plus in DHS and ICE

  27. WRONG
    HP bullets expand upon entering flesh they do NOT over penetrate. IDIOT !!!

  28. Often the dum dums have been referred to as soft point and hollow point and the term is just slang for both but has evolved to be rotating for dum dums as opposed to splat for hp on impact by definition as per Wikipedia, smile guys we're still getting it right 🙂 they make a mess no matter what you call them

  29. Bottom line THE U.S GOVERNMENT is at WAR with WE the PEOPLE! VOTE!

  30. 2WarAbnVet says:

    The Geneva Convention outlaws the use of hollow points, but I guess that doesn't matter if you use them on your own populace.

  31. I believe the supposed coffins were actually the concrete casing that surrounds the coffins but that is no comfort because coffins go in them. maybe they intend to throw bodies in them en mass and bury the casings. FEMA is up to something and planning for what, a failure of the US dollar and control of the population in the event of mass riots? I would watch for the US Govt to discredit anything of this nature and try to make us all look like nut cases…

  32. 2WarAbnVet says:

    There are a number of pistols offered in that caliber.

  33. Huapakechi says:

    Remember when "o"boy stated he wanted a civilian force, just as well armed as the U.S. military?

  34. A great site for planning for survival, I prefer to called a prepper. http://www.survivalblog.com (or)

  35. Too many to list.
    Go to http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?action=1021&cali=40%20Cal
    Use the drop down for .40 S&W

  36. The bullets are called dum-dumbs. The American voters are dumb-duddmbs. People, don't you see that we have the most dangerous and corrupt imposter in the White House and everyday he is allowed to stay there is one more disasterous day for our freedom. WAKE UP AND GET ON THE BACKS OF YOUR REPS IN CONGRESS. Obama needs to be impeached or put on trial for treason. I prefer the latter.

  37. Sorry, I meant to say the voters are dumb-dumbs.

  38. George Semel says:

    Five years 450 million rounds of ammo for the Border Patrol and the rest of them, Thats barely enough to keep proficient in shooting a handgun. A none story when you get down to it. Heck when I carried, if I didn't shoot 100 rounds a week, I felt I was not shooting enough to keep proficient. Most in law enforcement don't shoot enough because, it cost money. The CT State Troopers only have to shoot on the range once a year. Most never shoot anymore than that. Then they wonder when they need to they miss more than they hit. They carry 9mm P-92 Berettas. and two extra magazines. That is around 45 rounds. So there are around 1000 State Troopers for example, that is 4500 rounds of ammo right there, and if they each would go shoot 100 rounds a week that would be 5 million rounds of ammo just for practice a year. And there are lot more arm feds in the Homeland Security It sounds wow that is a lot of ammo. Looks to me like the feds are being super cheap here, like they always are when it comes to defending the nation and enforcing its laws. Now if it was a Billon rounds a year well then it might be questionable. Navy Seals shoot 80000 rounds a year each, and my guess that would be a light target practice for what they do.

  39. hey all you guys, here is a link to the web site and company in Anoka MN that is producing the rounds and they may have more penetration than I originally thought so go check it out for your selves copy and paste to your browser

  40. Yes, but 450 million rounds is ridiculous! What do they think they want to do, kill all of us?

  41. zoomer165 says:

    why practice with hollow points, I'm sure there's cheaper lead out there. but hey I'm ready….

  42. No but hollow points achieve the same result.

  43. Well, just look at the numbers, what are they going to do shoot 450 million cans or bottles?
    This purchase was probably made to eliminate all that want to oppose the current administration, if the coming election puts Obama out of office. His personal army, paid for and trained by your tax dollars as outlined in the "Obama care" bill Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid shoved down our throats.

  44. Oops, i guess I better not use the ones I have any more, or at least I'll convert to plinking instead…
    seriously. I intend to buy as many as I can before DHS says no more…then I'll have to make more ammo for my Bear http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/

  45. Paul Trombley says:

    The contract is IDIQ "and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds"

    Read that again, journalist Gary: MAXIMUM VOLUME. So, DHS hasn't ordered 450m rounds.

    Please grow up and stop spreading rumors.

  46. These are not 40 cal target rounds. These are 40 cal HOLLOW POINTS. They are used for killing, and NO ONE uses a 40 cal pistol for hunting any animals other than humans. So by process of elimination, these rounds are being purchased to kill American citizens. I just called my congressman and questioned his aide, who knew absolutely NOTHING about this. I demanded a written reply, and NOT a boiler plate bul***** email. I would really, really like to find out the who, what, why, where, when and how of this one.

  47. You can order Glocks in many calibers, 40cal. is only one of them. You can also get then in 9mm, 45cal, and 44cal.

  48. But were you using hollow points for target practice???? Anyone the least bit concerned with the cost of their practice sessions would not use these bullets for mere practice. They are designed for serious use against people.

  49. What would be your assessment for the specific use of the Dum-dums ?

  50. Not even close of a description. The us of the word dum-dum makes me believe North doesn't have a clue what they are. They should have run this by someone with more intelligence before publishing. Lost a whole bunch of credibility.

  51. My hollow points are cheaper than the solid cartridge, what's with that? maybe part of the cartridge is missing? I use Ruger 10/22 for practice and a few of the 40s to site and get used to the other hand gun. a huge difference in the weapons though… for me it is like going from a 22cal to a 7.62mm in recoil from an M14… really. I've fired both. lottsa times. I can hit a lot more with the M14 than with a hand gun though, I guess that's why it's called plinking… 🙂

  52. getyourfactsright says:

    No, the Geneva Convention does NOT outlaw hollow points… and hollow points are NOT dum dums…

    VOTE THIS ISLAMIC TRAITOR OUT. sorry about the shouting…

  54. marine68 says:

    Good quality Hollow points have been very hard to find for reloading a few months now, and this explains it. In all of the Genocidal actions taken against citizens around the world throughout the twentieth Century, the primary weapons used were: first disarmament, and then small arms used by Police forces, Mostly Pistols. some unfortunates died hacked or cut to pieces while still alive, and some at the end of Bayonets for practice. I would suggest that everyone reading this post buy a copy of the DVD "Innocents Betrayed", it is a documentary about the hundreds of millions that were first disarmed, and then slaughtered by their Governments. The Last Government mentioned as in process is the U.S. I have shown mine to as many of my friends and family as will watch it. If you can see the blow coming, you can avoid it.

  55. Good question. Remember those guys are not the greatest shooters. A very small percentage of that ammo will actually hit the intended target.

  56. Hurshall Jimison says:

    These are not dum-dums. They are standard police and self defense rounds. I currently have about six-hundred of these in my locker right now!

  57. 2WarAbnVet says:

    Okay, — "The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibited the use in international warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body. This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams, as well as weapons designed to aggravate injured soldiers or make their death inevitable. NATO members do not use small arms ammunition that is prohibited by the Hague Convention."

  58. Anybody ever tell you MORONS that "bullets" are only PART of a "cartridge"…. i.e., ammunition. A bullet is only a piece of lead, lead alloy, copper-plated lead, or the new soft copper. It can only hurt somebody if you "propel" it with something, or throw it.

    Hollow points afford better expansion, therefore the energy contained within the projectile is dissipated in the TARGET, rather than simply penetrating… i.e. the bad guy STOPS.

  59. Two points:
    1. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds. So that's less than 100 million rounds a year and we don't know if DHS will exercise those additional years.

    2. Most of us practice with FMJ and only carry with Hollow Points solely for the costs involved. If DHS & ICE are practicing with Hollow Points, that's more waste of tax payers money.

  60. Remember Hussien Osama's word ( My civilian army ! ) Mostly Black Panties Party members etc and other black Racists , Gon clear out all those crackers,Trouble makers etc heh they forget that they bleed nice and RED when they have a hole clear through them Ha Ha . Don't forget stock up on AP rounds ,and lots of 12 gauge slugs = 6 in hole or better .

  61. Gene Poole says:

    I thought Obama was the only dictator we ever voted into office… Wel, it's true that Bush, Jr. wasn't elected.

  62. BGinTN, your math is impressive and believe me, I am on the side of freedom lovers, just like I was 3 days ago when I posted this news about DHS. Are you also aware the US government is quietly going around and buying up all the 5.56 and .2223 rounds in military surplus stores nationwide, as well as telling ammo makers to stop making ammo that has a shelf life longer than 12 months, so private citizens cannot amass and store large quantities for their self-defense should there be a systemic collapse due to the government's institutional incompetence at doing anything right?

  63. Thank you! I'm glad someone remembers it. In all the talk about Obamacare, few, if any, seem aware that this very force is provided for in that 'document' (ever heard of a 2,700 page 'document'?).

  64. Good point, 'ball' ammo is cheaper.

  65. Gary Riippi says:

    Then I guess the QUESTION is, why are they ordering dumdum (hole point) bullets rather then target ammo which is cheaper!!! Dumdum bullets are meant to be shot at any animal or human in order to kill. Especially designed in pistol ammo for home defense are 9mm, .40cal, 357 cal.,.45 cal. Hollow point ammo commandes a higher price than jacketed metal target pistol ammo. Look it up, better yet check it out a Walmart or your local gun store.

  66. djgoetzwyo says:

    Maybe one of the many bio or chem agents that they have developed ? Be wonderful if they could wipe US All out and still have the materials and our other possessions Huh?

  67. djgoetzwyo says:

    450 million over the 4 year period !

  68. Vote? For who? No way they’ll let Ron Paul win or if by some wildly crazy fluke he did win, they would kill him before he could pledge to the constitution.. As Alf said, I kill myself. Seriously, don’t bother to argue ammunition. There are more anti-personnel weapons than you can count and so many of them don’t involve any type of fire arm or arms of any sort that shoot anything. I remember when the AFB in Big Spring Texas ran sortie after sortie with their little jets loaded with influenza and they sprayed it over tiny towns and large ones. Now there are all sorts of weapons that involve nothing but energy. You worried about bullets back in the sixties when I found out the ballistic coefficient of .223 Rem. or more precisely for the military 5.56 X 46 mm ammo was so sorry they literally tumbled after striking an animal. I immediately bought one of those little black rifles and found I could take down almost anything under 600# with one shot. Shoot a hog in the head and when you field dress it you might find, as I once did, the hog had been gut shot. I finally traced it’s path and it had take quite a tour through that pigs body. They perform the same way on any body with any title or without. I have been accumulating batteries from my farm implements, cars, trucks, pick-ups, lawnmowers and anything else I had to replace one on for over 30 years now. That battery lead may not be as sophisticated as the plated ammo you buy but it will do the job. Some people might look at the wound and it’s path and swear it was a dum dum, what the hell ever that is. I can remember when it was illegal, and may still be, to booger up the tip of a bullet so it does more damage. Now you just buy it that way only it has a patented name and no manufacturer I’m aware of calls their special bad boy bullet a dum dum. That name is reserved for people who think the govt. soldiers won’t shoot their own family if ordered to. As we’ve recently seen a person can get a concealed carry license, become one of the “Neighborhood Watch” fools and stalk and kill innocent people they think they can get away with. They either need a job with the govt. or had one too long.

  69. How many of those idiots really read what is sent to them, Not Many.

  70. Troublemaker says:

    Your brother is right, AMERIKA has got the TYRANNY they deserve. If they can't see the trouble they are in now, they never will. Hell, you don't have to be a genius to figure out that Obama is a Muslim-Marxist and the former Democrats are now communists, all you have to do is pull your sorry *ss away from all the distractions that the communists have used to placate the sheeple. When they loose their freedom entirely, they'll wonder what the hell happened; what a pathetic bunch of lazy pleasure seekers that are going to regret their indulgences!

  71. If Obama buys the total output of ammunition producers, there will be a large shortage for the rest of us. Try buying 9mm or 380 pistol ammo now.

  72. Obama and his administration won't follow any law they don't like anyway.

  73. Bob, We civilians are paying a premium for ammo today because the military has priority on all the components – lead, brass, primers and powder. This has some of the ammo makers running three shifts and they still can't keep up. It means that the availability of civilian ammo in some calibers is very limited but more important, the shortage of basic components is affecting the production of all the other calibers, making existing stocks run short, which drives up the price.
    The Obama administration has picked up on this – not only is George Soros fronting money to buy up many firearms manufacturers, it appears the Fed is letting mouth-watering government contracts for ammo. More production lines for sure, but not for civillian ammo – and more consumption of the basic components needed to make ammo. Ergo, more shortages of basic components and shortages of ammo on the shelf in your favorite store, and what is available will go up in price.

  74. Blair Franconia, NH says:

    What, or who, would they be used on?

  75. bobvelon says:

    Give you one guess on that. You bet we are the targets…..

  76. bobvelon says:

    But a 5.56 green tip will penetrate 1/4 in. steel plate…

  77. Mitchina says:

    I am waiting to hear that they are warming up the ovens….

  78. No need to be harsh, I read it, albeit knowing the terminology and physics of bullets, that they bought them so that there would NOT be over-penetration.

  79. Lt.General (Ret.) Jerry Boykin on Marxism in America. http://www.morningstartv.com/oak-initiative/marxi

  80. I agree BG. It is really not that mush ammo when ya break it down such as you did. I am holding more than your average per man here. I got more than 450. Although it's not all HP. I think alot of this is just over-reaction and thinking alittle too hard. I am not saying something is comming down the pipe, but this ammo has nothing to do with anything.

  81. No shit. I hate people like that. I knew what he meant. Hollow points do not over penetrate while military FMJ can go through several people.

  82. Bob da Grouch says:

    For Vic & Mike Maull, you are both correct, and thanks for setting the record straight. BTW, For the un-knowing, over penetration happens when the projectile exits the primary target, while maintaining enough energy to damage another target (person). The entire reasoning behind law enforcment's use of hollow point ammo has been thoroughly researched and studied by the ammunition industry and various government agencies. When an officer is forced to discharge his/her sidearm, the idea is to take out the intended target, and no one else. Please, Lord, let everyone understand that.

  83. Kenny123456 says:

    Yer damn STRAIGHT on this. I am someone who KNOWS what bullets sound like passing your GD ear! Nam 1969

  84. He has started his civilian army already with the New Black Panther party seeking one million dollars for the head of Zimmerman. So where is dirty Eric Holder warning his people to knock it off? Folks we are getting ready for a race war and Obama/Holder are the new Nazi party. Get rid of the SOB and get ready to vote.

  85. I've heard that the Post Office has a SWAT team. For What?

  86. Wrong answer lilbear68! Most things sold to the government are at a higher cost than what non-government powers pay! Example..a pistol that costs you and me $600.00 is usually $900.00 or so to the government! (more profit per gun) So if they make the government pay that…the law states that anything the government buys can't be sold to the public at a lower price! They've got us coming and going! But the kind of guns that the government buys are "just" a little better than what we can get.

  87. Palehorse58 says:

    A handgun is user to fight your way to your rifle. Homeland security probably doesn't know how to use a rifle so I guess we are safe.

  88. 40 cal has become the caliber of choice among law enforcement personnel. There are two widely-used pistol rounds that use a .40 bullet (the .40 S&W and the 10mm Auto) and many different automatic pistols are chambered for them. BTW, all hunting rounds (with the exception of those designed for massive dangerous animals like elephant and rhino) use what would be considered a "dum dum" bullet, designed to expand inside the animal for quick, humane kills. A FMJ bullet, as prescribed by the Geneva convention, passes completely through the body and produces only a pencil-sized hole with minimal tissue destruction. Part of the nastiness of warfare is that we want to produce casualties even more than fatalities, since wounded soldiers require manpower and resources to care for them.

  89. There is a "plan" that does not include our vote. Never underestimate the insidious resolve of an aspiring tin pot tyrant and his coterie of eager, willing sycophants. FYI – hollow point ammunition is NOT for practice, it's for real.

  90. sherman4040 says:

    My sentiments exactly! And I don't think that they expect an invasion from south of the border either! I don't even think that they expect landings on the piers of Boston, New York or Baltimore harbours…. It is more likely that these rounds will be used on the AMERICAN people when we are forced to rise and throw these bastards out, including the "anointed one" and all his minions! But it is now a waiting game! The SCOTUS better "read" the American people correctly !! There are a few of us who are fed up! Sick and tired of seeing the constitution being "trashed" and statue law being broken on a daily basis this community organizer!

  91. theoneshootingback says:

    Yeah, we get it Tom. Thanks for pointing out that we're all morons to your way of thinking. I'm sure that most of the morons,as "you point out," are actually referring to the entire cartridge. Do you feel better about your post when you put us morons in our place? For your info. I and the buds I hang out with are experienced shooters,most of us have 25 – 30 years experience…
    I do agree with your assessment "the bad guy stops", so please give us a break , we're not as dumb as you think…

  92. Your right Kevin, they're for stopping power, HP 40s will make a little mess, your still real dead…I realize this is a contract to be filled over time but the cartridges are for killing not threatening…

  93. No such thing as Dum-Dums- that is an old english Arsenal in India. Expanding bullets (hollow-points) are used by Law enforcement and citizens. The military only used FMJ bullets

    As for Obama's civilian force – kinda of like Hitler's Brown Shirts – I can't imagine that Obama can find 1,000,000 blacks that can even march in step – One-too-fwee-fo – besides we have got them all outgunned.

  94. Actually I need to stock up on .308 and 30.06 for my M-21 and Garand ! That way when these assholes come to my gunfight – I won't have to waste ammo with a smaller caliber !! 1- asshole= 1 bullet . So the message for all you black panthers- criminals-dirt bags=gang bangers – is 7.62 !!

  95. Frank Norton says:

    I would think that a government that is feared by the people because it does not seal our borders so that millions of illegal immagrants are already in the country, and foreign countries are declaring a promise to destroy our country, that government officals are carrying gunes to protect themselves from the people who are killing Americans on the streets every day and night. But Americans are buying guns too, but amunation is limited to the people and so they do not get to practice shooting since many of the outdoor shooting ranges have been closed down.

  96. LOWCUT says:


  97. Ricky Raider says:

    Wake Up People Hussein Osama doesnt want an election … So he will declare Martial law and declare war on American citizens . Guess what th 40 cal ammo is for .. Killing whites an others that resist and own firearms . He wants to change America to Koonland plantation

  98. Bruce Hartman says:

    This nation is experiencing the dumbass
    pandemic because the “big O” escaped the ” ebonic” plague. If your congressmen/woman is a commie send them an “Antlerhat” and an invitation to “OPENING Day”,and a, heart felt plee to refrain from further entrance to the “gene pool”. If
    sto fro from breeding we ca curtail th the spread of t of the virus