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Two Kinds of Resistance to Tyranny

Written by Gary North on March 12, 2012

Would you rather wind up like David Koresh or Barack Obama?

Does this sound like a silly question? It isn’t.

Koresh thought he could kill federal officers and get away with it. He got killed, taking a lot of naive, trusting, and armed adults with him . . . and unarmed children.

Obama decided to follow the tactics of Saul Alinsky, a non-violent revolutionary who adopted the tactics of resistance used by Gandhi. A successful revolution avoids violence.

Who has been more successful in pursuing his agenda?

A decade before Koresh died and 19 years before Obama worked with ACORN, an Alinsky-inspired political organization (R.I.P.), I edited to volumes:

Theology of Christian Resistance (www.bit.ly/CRtheology)

Tactics of Christian Resistance (www.bit.ly/CRtactics)

In Tactics, I discussed Alinsky’s tactics. I recommended them, though of course modified so as not to pursue the strengthening of the state. I opposed armed resistance.

Anyone who recommends taking up arms against the government is a Koresh-minded person. Stay as far away from him as you can.

I say this, because the Tea Party movement has attracted Koresh-minded people. I know this, because a few of them have expressed displeasure with my previous article on the use of arms.

It is better to be elected President than it is to die in a hail of bullets or a fire. It is better to appoint the Attorney General than it it is to die under the armed forces commanded by the Attorney General.

This should be obvious. It is not obvious to wanne-be Koreshes.

Koresh’s remains are buried in Tyler, Texas. I lived there at the time. I lived there when I edited those two volumes. If he had read them and followed them, he would probably still be alive. But he was not a Christian. He was a cult leader. Sadly for those around him, his cult was armed.

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102 thoughts on “Two Kinds of Resistance to Tyranny

  1. SEAN MURRY says:

    It sounds good but will it work today?

  2. Alinsky's tactics like his book are dedicated to lucifer. We do not need a Christian revolution we need a return to traditional, Biblical, Christian, values. This and this alone will revitalize our churches and our nation

  3. Nothing has ever been accomplished in the the history of mankind that did not involve bloodshed, at least not for the betterment of mankind. Using koresh is a terrible way of comparing events. This country will see a revolution at some point. Government cannot continue at the self-serving pace that exist today. There will be a point at which the dwindling number of tax payers cannot support the non-payers. The printing of money will not satisfy the need of the society. God help this nation. Please use a better analogy.

  4. Fully agree and thanks for having the guts and grace to say this without worrying about being politically correct just to please liberals.

  5. lilbear68 says:

    tell that to those that died and are dying every day in the arab spring, how they actually succeed will be determined by history but they did indeed need violence and bloodshed to over their come sitting govts. we needed armed revolt against the brits twice.

  6. Sounds like a panty waste who never killed anyone

  7. Victor Barney says:

    You’re overlooking an extremely important part in this article! Obama is the endtime first-born Hebrew Scriptural blood covenant with death made 6,000 years ago between Hawah(Eve), Cain, and Lucifer, STILL the Angel over this world, unless YOU are called out of it! Obama, unlike Tebby R., FDR, or even Carter, who loved to brag about being marxist, and still does I’m sure, is the RIGHT ANTI-CHRIST(MARXIST) over u.s. this time and also the “forbidden foreigner” of Deut. 17:15 as written! Yes, Eve started man’s age through her “intellectualizing”(first-sin) and now is ending it just like she began it! Next comes the two-witnesses of Revelation, chapter 11 on September 16, 2012, and she is not going to like them either! No? Watch!

  8. David Williams says:

    I am certainly glad that the Founding Fathers did not have you or Alinsky influencing thier decision to throw off the tyranny of George III. While in general, violence is abhorant, sometimes, not often, but sometimes it is necessary.

  9. I don't condone violance but if you think that our constitution, Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights will remain our law and guide line without violance happening then you have a deceived mind. I am sure that many will fight to protect our God given rights and I have given part of my life to defend this great country of ours and if you think I will let it fall without a fight , you are mistaken. Like I wrote my rep and senators that I gave my allegiance to defend before even knowing I could possibly die and I will go down doing it again.

  10. I suppose the American Revolution was illegitimate then?…or our founders were cult leaders who happened to be successful…unlike Koresh…I do not advocate for armed struggle to change the direction of our country but I think that our founders would disagree that it is never called for…

  11. Has anyone ever heard the founding fathers quote? From time to time the tree of liberty needs to be watered by the blood of patriots, and tyrants! May not be the exact quote but it's real close. I am not a constitutional scholar however, I am a patriot and I am sick of the Government stomping on the constitution.

  12. Whether David Koresh was a Christian or cultist is irrelevant. One of the military arms of the federal government is the ATF. This is a despicable organization that murderers like to join. They are the Gestapo baby killers not Koresh.
    David Koresh is not their only victim. They are constantly breaking doors in the middle of the night putting bullets in people and bragging about it.
    They are immoral, law breakers, criminal mafia who trash the constitution and they are also thieves. They have been caught stealing from their victims.
    Don’t blame the victim, Koresh was in his constitutional rights and was killed for it by dictators.

  13. Live Free of Die. It was a good motto in 1776 and still is in 2012.

  14. Live Free or Die. It was a good motto in 1776 and still is in 2012.

  15. Patriot Diva says:

    True Jim, however if we do come to the point of a revolution, I'd like to be like General Patton who said, "The goal of a soldier is not to die for one's country, but to make sure the other S.O.B. dies for his." In this case the other S.O.B.'s are of course the marxists/communists in our midst.

  16. Patriot Diva says:

    I agree Scott, but the government has unlimited resources and weapons. They have recently approved military drones in U.S. air space, no doubt to show us uppity citizens who's boss. I think what he is advocating are ways that do not involve armed resistance to frustrate them and thwart their efforts. Not everyone knows how to use a firearm or is comfortable with it. Also, not everyone is physically able to resist with violence. This provides those people with ways to be a part of the resistance. I think it helps them feel as if there is actually something they can do. I laugh thinking of my 80 year old mother slyly thwarting the government.

  17. Troublemaker says:

    For your information Mr. North, as far as I can tell, Koresh was acting by himself and his small gathering. You should not compare his resistance to a movement where the whole country united to take this Muslim-MAarxist and his communist minions down – as they should be taken down. They are "political bullies" and are ramming tyranny down the throat of AMERIKA and corrective measures must be taken – whatever they may be. Voting has become useless because the peoples voices are negated by the communist judges that overturn every referendum that the electorate passes – prove me wrong. There come a time when you must confront evil head on or be devoured by it and make no mistake, a regime that pushes abortion, homosexuality, and soon euthanasia is a Godless government that will do as they please. This regime is a culture of death, as is every communist regime. Doubt me at your own risk – fools!

  18. Better to go out like Koresh than to be transported to 1 of the many FEMA consentration camps in a rr boxcar with shackles welded in, and be beaten, tortured and starved for what little life I have left.( BTW, boxcars and camps already set up or under construction. {Source, WND and Patriot Update.}

  19. The next step is to restrict what religion we worship!
    Look the Obama administration wants to severely restrict the "Christian" movement, and our right to worship as we please.
    There is a time to worship the bible, and a time to follow the constitution. If we don't follow the constitution, we may not have the freedom to worship our bibles!

  20. this country will fight back .i just hope it ant to late vote newt.g

  21. CrustyOldGeezer says:

    Your original premise is wrong.

    David Koresh was operating under the assumption that the US Constitution PROTECTED his RIGHTS to "Freedom of Religion" and started his very own version of 'religion', and RIGHT to" KEEP AND BEAR ARMS".
    David Koresh did not threaten to kill 'federal officers', they came to him in a D Day Landing assault on his home/church with the intention of destroying any foolish notion he may have had of living a peaceful life in coexistence with the rest of the world.

    I'm no fan of weird 'religions' and certainly no fan of this one, but please get your facts and premise right first.

    He was on good relations with the local authorities and the sheriff had stated before the raid, that all he had to do was call and ask koresh if it would be ok if he stopped by for a few questions and was always invited in with courtesy and respect.

  22. What's the population of the USA? Roughly 300 million? At least 25million have firearms, and know how to use them.
    Oh there are a lot more than 25million who have fire-arms but I'm being conservative here, and the statistics a conservative figure to work with. The Chinese don't even have a 25million man army! We don't have to support a front, we only need to get rid of the traitors in the administration.

  23. There i9s no "Arab Spring" it is liberal media BS and I say good let Muslims kill other Muslims because it shows just how stupid anyone is who believes Islam is a "religion of peace"

  24. Jon Darmes says:

    Bill Clintons' federal government (another stinking democrat), under the auspices of our so called Dept. of Justice, made war on the american people and murdered them, and they got away with it. They did the same on Ruby Ridge. Don't give us this crap that the Branch Devidians were at fault because they were a bunch of cultist's. They were minding their own business and apparently harming no one and they got along with local law enforcement. It wasn't all that long ago that the Roman Catholic Church looked upon all protestants as cultist's.

  25. 2WarAbnVet says:

    The title of this piece alludes to Obama resisting tyranny. Is this a joke? Obama epitomizes the desire to impose tyranny.

  26. Merry Mary says:

    “Koresh was in his constitutional rights and was killed for it by dictators.” I agree completely. If his religion was weird, he had a right to it. We wouldn’t dare treat Muslims as these people were treated. I saw that complex burn and even today it brings tears to my eyes. Women and children should not be sacrificed to proof how tough the government is. I shudder to think what will happen to our soldier who killed civilians in Afghanistan this week.

  27. Two false choices – both of which consist of the mistaken faith in external authority. See http://centerforselfrule.org – specifically A Way To Be Free by Robert LeFevre.

  28. The choices being religion and government.

  29. Which is the moral choice? Acting in self defense or using the coercive arm of the state?

  30. Comparing Obomber to Gandi? Really?

  31. Bill McCroskey says:

    The authority that the founders of this country fought enforcement arm was an ocean and logistically a month away. Their armaments were with in reason equal to the Patriots. Today the enforcement arm is mostly minutes away and at most a few hours away with a thousand times more firepower at their disposal than ALL of us on this website combined.

  32. SnakeArbusto says:

    Why can't there be two sides to a question? Alinsky is described as being peaceful. You say he is "dedicated to Lucifer". Why is someone evil just becasue they dot agree with you? Can you claim to be 100% good? In humanity there is no 100% good nor 100% evil. In fact, good and evil are concepts invented by humans. To insist on a Manichean view of good and evil is to cut yourself off from humanity. Which would be a shame. Besides, "traditional" values include tolerance of one's fellow man. In a complicated modern world, this may require you to be tolerant of some things that are very foreign to you. Does that mean they are evil? No. Open your heart, do not harden it.

  33. "the peoples voices are negated by the communist judges that overturn every referendum that the electorate passes – prove me wrong. " I'll prove you RIGHT! The US Supreme Court gave the 2000 election to Bush despite the fact that Gore had a mjority of te popular vote AND the electoral vote had the Florida results not been stolen. But the judges aren't Communists. They're Conservatists.

  34. Gene Poole says:

    Obama in his perfection and codification of what Bush started with PATRIOT epitomizes the desire to impose tyranny. Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Bush didn't dare push it all through with the Democrats in the opposition. Now, O8ama can do it and get away with him because no Democrat has the b*lls or *varies to point to it for what it is: creeping Fascism. ANd of course the Republicans love it too. Result: Nobody sound the alarm. You asked for it, folks, and you're getting it.

  35. Concerned says:

    Gary – Have you had a stroke?

  36. NomadDave says:

    Hey Snake, the reason he said so, is because it actually says so at the beginning of his book "Rules for radicals" it was/is dedicated to Lucifer.

  37. jim shipley says:

    Truer words were never spoken and spoken well.

  38. We can survive as a country IF the electorate will only realize that RON PAUL is the ONLY candidate who WILL DO what he says he will do! How many presidents have you seen RENEGE on their campaign promises??? H.W.Bush, Bill Clinton, G.W.Bush, Barak Obama… need I say more?

    VOTE for Ron Paul if you want to SAVE THE USA! Even if RON runs 3rd or 4th, if he gets enough delegates, h e can influence the platform and even the nominee.

  39. You for get Mr McCroskey that there are 80 to 90 million gun owners of which a good 30 % are serious about keeping our gun's. Also that all police and military unit's will not follow order's to kill other American's! It is true that the the Goverment has a thousand time's more firepower but who would be crazy enough to face them on their term's, Gorilla attack's from hundred's or thousand,s of places at the same time won't allow them to concentrate such firepower. The cost's will be high but we would win in the long run! Even with the intervention of other countries American's will gather together and overcome and I pity (or not ) all the people in the government that will pay the price for that revolution!!!

  40. You're an idiot. The overseas votes from military members were initially mishandled; and when corrected, showed Bush had won FL fair and square.

  41. You're also an idiot. Try accessing more accurate sources of info, rather than World Nut Daily.

  42. Does minding your own business include the right to sexually abuse underage women? I will agree that the feds had no business there. Should have been kept a local police matter.

  43. Just curious…before making your comments, did any of you folks read the two books/volumes that Gary mentioned? It would probably be wise to do so.

  44. EyesWideOpen says:

    Gary North is a moron! David Koresh did nothing more than start a religious commune. They did not bother anyone else. Federal goons illegally entered his property, with the intent of assassinating him and they simply tried to protect themselves.
    Would we have won the American Revolution without taking up arms? NO

  45. Illegal-alienInOURWH says:

    No one but you can restrict whether or not to worship the Lord and Jesus Christ… for no other "religion" will work out for there is only one God, and only one Jesus… anything else is futile.

    he wants to "severely restrict" the Christian movement because in his eyes and the eyes of the other loser muslims we are the infidels, not them… They know they lose in the end, and the Christians that stay true to Jesus Christ (which it the only way to get to heaven, no matter what) will prosper and win in the end.. We just have to endure a little discomfort for a while longer…

    in the end, the rewards are plenty,, no 70 something vrigins… (wouldn't that be funny if they got 70 year old virgins,,,, haha made myself laugh on that one)….

    May God save these great United States of America for we are not ready to end this world just yet..and may he have mercy on our souls for what we might have to do,, and I pray that we don't!!!!

  46. Good article and essentially correct, except on one point. There are not actually only two types of resistance to tyranny. There are in fact, at least four. From what I believe that I understand, this writer is writing about two different forms of passive resistance and then confusing armed resistance and government propaganda with one of these two types of resistance.

    You see, historically, there are two types of resistance, passive and active. Each of these can then further be divided into at least two more forms of resistance, passive inactive and passive active or active passive and active resistive (or confrontational(the same difference)). The differences are as follows:

    Even though these names sound a little like double-speak, please bear with me.

    passive inactive — this is pretty much where the vast majority of US citizens are right now and where many of us will remain in the face of tyranny. We sit idly by, possibly writing letters or commenting on the articles such as this one or the social networks and hope everything will be alright. But above all, while we know something is inherently wrong, we stay (what we hope will be) safely behind our walls, refusing to stick our necks out and hope we will not be the ones to have to face the actual fight to save our republic, our homes and our families. We are the ones, who like the citizens of Germany, Russia, China and elsewhere, will hope to live to survive while all the corruption and evil passes us by and maybe a few of us will live to see sanity return. That is, if there are enough of the others who will actually stand up and do something to protect us, even though we were the ones to decry their strengths, to go stand between our military and the islamics in Iraq while they and their buddies laughed at us and then murdered all those innocent people on 9/11. Yes, we are the naysayers and the peacenicks.

    passive active — for these folks, think Ghandi. We are the ones who will not raise arms to fight, but will go sit infront of demolition equipment and march on those places we do not agree with. We can often be led around by the nose with first one cause and then another. We don’t always get things right. We are the 99%ers and the flea baggers. Many are just as bad as those running this country right now, because we follow Marx, Lennin and an assortment of other political theories of the moment, even those that consistently fail like fascism, marxism and islam. Most of us do not have a clue. We will likely not be seen in line to vote or to take a meaningful stance on anything, but we will be vocal and can be relied upon to put forth the effort to see to it that our issues are expressed, even if we don’t really know what they are right now.

    active passive — now we’re getting somewhere. We are the ones who will not stant in large groups marching against this agenda or that. We will not usually stand with the flea baggers or support the liberal/marxist/or fascist agendas. We stand up for our nation, our republic and the continuity of the things that make America great. While we will not pick up weapons except in our own self defense (at least most of us), we will take action. We vote, file law suits, petitions, and make calls to our congressmen and women to voice our concerns. We will fight for our freedoms and support the U.S. Constitution. We will remain vocal about lawful immigration and support the rights of our neighbors and ourselves. We will not remain silen or still. We will be the ones listening to talk radio and supporting those who actually face the barbarity and venom of the evil of our world. We are the 1% minority (Who include an actual majority, many of which still will not vote.) But we all remain hopeful that the electoral process, litigation through the obama justice department and all the other traditional means of lawful redress will garner positive results, even though we all know that these have been so corrupted, coopted and thoroughly bought and paid for by the criminals, thugs and traitors in our midsts and our government that lawful, just and legitimate outcomes have become impossible. These are the reasons for obama and his cohorts’ contempt and their arrogance and still we wait for results. Apathy, insanity and false unrealistic hope is our way. We own arms for our personal security and to stand against tyranny, but we wait while the islamo-fascists and the rogue government scheme and work with the UN to disarm us and enslave us, or to use the indefinite detention laws, executive sanctioned murder (such as with WACO) and other unlawful and unconstitutional means to deal with us. We will be the ones initially apprehended, locked up, put to re-education under this or a near following regime or executed. We are the prior service members and the freedom loving, God loveing citizens. We hold to our guns and bibles much to obama, Holder, Clinton, Reid, Pelosi, and their friends’ chagrin. These are the people who make up most of the sane melitia members, tea party members and those who oppose slavery, oppression and tyranny. These are also (from what I understand) the people who were following Koresh at Waco, until a government plant failed to take over the group to push them to radical crimes like the government was doing with the militias (until they were caught and stopped by the Republic of Texas) and worked with Hillary Clinton and their tool, Janet Reno to fail to serve a warrant, but rather to go in and murder the people at the Branch Davidian Compount, many of which were unarmed (except for the babies and children they were holding) and then lock up the survivors for “enhancements” to the crimes for which they were wanted, but for which they were never convicted.

    Question: How do you end up being put in prison for enhancements to crimes that never occurred? These “Citizens” were and remain so incarcerated. (at least as far as I know. Who among us are next?)

    active resistive (or confrontational(the same difference)) — These are either the ones who are insane and willing to die because they are stupid or these are the people who are actually fed up with the oppression, dismantling of our republic, betrayal of our Churces and families and who support the U.S. Constitution and all for which it stands, but know no meaningful way of fighting in light of all the corruption and manipulation going on. These are the ones that do one of three things:

    1. They end up quietly making preparations for the travesties they see and the cruelty and despotism they know is coming. These are the survivalists and the people who are taking steps to resist and survive without telling anyone else about it. There are thousands of us out here and these will be the ones, as in all tyrannical regimes, who will likely lead the charge to preserve our republic once the government has arrested, oppresses and enslaved, or murdered, shackled and re-educated or destroyed most of us. They are the ones who will be looked to to do for us what the USA did for the world under Hitler’s cruelty and who will have all the right in the world to tell us “No. We deserve what we have allowed, just as those who accepted the Nazis or the Communists did.” What is more, if they tell us this, they will be absolutely right. These are the people all Tyrants and despots fear. They need no one and will fight, struggle and survive regardless of what the scum running rogue governments try. They support Israel and all who are victimized unjustly, believe in hope, liberty and freedom and who will NEVER back down. These are the Real Patriots.

    2. These are the folks who will remain armed regardless of any laws, even if they must build their own weapons and escalate what they have or turn to hidden weapons in order to defend themselves and their families. You will never know who these people are. They believe in freedom and liberty, but quietly remain below the radar, hidden from those who would apprehend, set up and destroy them or who would otherwise do them harm. These are the ones who seek out the vulnerabilities, not because they intend any harm to anyone, but rather, because they know that the systems put in place to squash their and everyone else’s liberty are merely more shackles to control and enslave. They will slip through every knot and avoid every trap and when the tyrants of the world dare to stick their slimy heads out and squeeze those they wish to dominate, these are the ones who will make up the elite among those who will stand tall and declare in one loud clear voice, “NO!” These are the people who comprised the majority of those who founded this republic and YES we are still around. Many will be caught, framed and murdered among these people by the rogue governments and criminal leadership they most oppose. But like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and many others before them, these are the ones who ultimately stand over the broken bodies of all tyrants wherever they rise and they always will.

    3. The radical lunatics. These are the ones who have no clue about what they are doing. These people are the proof that it is a very thin line between madness and genius. They can be easily led, commit much of the “militia” neo-nazi crimes and race hatred that provides the fuel for the dictators and gun grabbers, the truth to those who would push the various -isms that politicians, false clerics (aka islam) and tyrants rely on for power and continuity of the same and who ultimately provide the shock troops, irrational leadership (i.e. many of the leaders of the unions, marxist groups, and race leaders for the flea bag movement) and the criminal leadership for use by the tyrants (think Goebles and the rest of Hitler’s elites). These are the ones most expendable by a regime and who usually gets tapped to do the dirty work.

  47. With all due respect Gary, Koresh and his flock did not "go to war" with the feds in some delusional act of defiance against a superior opponent. He and the Davidians — which at the time of their mass murder by the US government consisted mostly of women and children — were living peaceably in Waco, practicing their religion as protected by the 1st Amendment, in fact had even INVITED local law enforcement to come out and inspect their gun registrations.

    The problem all along was the feds, specifically the BATF, which was facing budget cutbacks and layoffs because of waste, incompetence and bad publicity surrounding some botched raids on the wrong houses (where have we heard that before?). The BATF thought it could garner some positive headlines by roughing up the Davidians as justification for its existence, but as usual the raid backfired. The early fed casualties were probably the result of friendly fire on the government side, but bureaucrats, being constitutionally incapable of admitting error, compounded the situation with the weeks-long standoff, which ended with the army punching holes in the Branch complex and pouring in CS02 gas (banned by the Geneva Convention) mixed with an extremely volatile accelerant called methylene chlorate.

    Once the Davidians had been burned alive and the complex incinerated, the grounds were immediately bulldozed down to a depth of 6 inches, loaded on trucks and carted away to be buried at a still-undisclosed location. Much like what the government did with the rubble from the World Trade Towers in 2001.

    This was nothing but another government cock-up followed by the usual destruction of any evidence that would implicate the perpetrators.

  48. God invented the use of violence to wipe people of the earth who were evil and wicked and that had turnned from Him and His laws. He let his chosen people Israel be led back into bondage by the Babylonian exile. He wiped the wicked off the face of the earth with a flood. All who sins against the Lord and does not repent will meet eternal death. "Him who has sinned against Me I will STRIKE out of My book, When it is time to punish, I will punish them for their sin". Thus the Lord smote (smite) the people for having had Aaron make the calf for them. Exodus 32:33-35 While Moses was on the mountain of God Aaron formed a false idol. God promised to punish those who took part. He promised to smite these people. Smite-to strike or hit extremely hard, to kill by striking hard, to afflict or effect seriously. God uses people at times to get rid of the "dead wood".

  49. We need to be as bold as Lion & stand our ground… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lZIom_yErk&fe….

  50. Bill McCroskey says:

    I think they are trained to follow orders….the main stream media will portray any one or group defying local authorities as right wing extremists and the use of deadly force is justified. The majority of the media in this country are dupes of the establishment and act as the propaganda arm of the government. I look at the Randy Weaver executions and the timid response of the media then…..think of the way TASS and Pravda USA would justify the government actions today versus nearly 20 years ago. The federal government is developing neighborhood snitches and infiltraters that are paid based on performance i.e. embellish your intelligence for more $$$$…. The military is pushing out leaders that are aware of the fascist work of D.C. so I don't expect much disobedience of the party line from the remaining leadership. Bless you too Marianne…

  51. Mr. North,
    I respectfully add my voice to those who've said that your choice of analogy is flawed. Yes Koresh led a cult and what he did to some of his followers including innocent children was wrong. That said the way that Clinotn, Reno (AG) and yes Eric Holder handled this situation and Ruby Ridge was terrible. The current occupier of the WH and his Dept of (IN)Justice under HOLDER have no qualms about acting against patriotic Americans.
    If those who can do not resist we go the way of Germany under Hitler. We are trying Tea Party rallies, petitioning our gov't, telling elected officials what we think and how we feel, and throught the ballot box to change things. Yet here we are 3+ years in to this bogus regime and big government seems to be gaining more power while we have less freedom.
    One of the tenets of our Constitution is redress of grievances and to get rid of a tyrranical government. How would you have us accomplish this? Do you remember, Mr. North the preamble to the Decalaration of Independence? "We pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor". Can we do less at this critical juncture?

  52. Ranchman says:

    How do you figure David Koresh started advocating killing federal officers? I believe it was law enforcement thugs (ATF et al) who opened fire on the people at Waco, Tx., not the people who first opened fire on authorities. David Koresh might have preached some things which mainstream Americans don't agree with, myself included, but in no way was the slaughter of innocents by federal thugs warranted in any way. The people at the Branch Davidian compound had done nothing wrong either legally or otherwise. It has been proven in court that all charges against them were fabricated and false. They were deviously concocted as a way to tyrannize the people, period.

  53. Bill McCroskey says:

    Arnie..you will need a command and control authority to wage a gorilla war… I think you would need a military type structure and the paid informants will negate any attempt to successfully organize before we could ever get close to that point. 48% of this country pay no taxes and I don't like coin flips for something as important as my life. A few public executions and I suspicion you will see Pareto's law in action quickly. I have lived a life on the edge of danger for 30+ years been clinically dead for 10 minutes….. I am not afraid of death…. I just don't want it to be in vain. I appreciate your position and thinking. I am with you I just see a different scenario and ending. All the best to you Sir.


  55. Ya, hysterical isn't it!!! that's like comparing a cobra to Gandi.

  56. ad astra per aspera says:

    Christians do not “worship” the Bible. We worship God alone! The Bible is God inspired, the Constitution is based on the Bible. To quote our founding fathers, “No Soverign but God, no King but King Jesus!”

  57. wizzrdofaz says:

    Thank you for posting truth. The Mt Carmel church was attacked by overwhelming force of overhead helicopters and troops on the ground. They defended themselves from an illegal and immoral all points attack by ATF troops, ATF troops in helicopters shooting down into the church buildings. The charges were so trumped up as to be laughable. Then, when they brought in FBI troops, they were assaulted by assassins, one of whom was Loren Horiuchi, who disappeared off the earth after the attack. This is the same assassin who killed Randy Weaver's son Sammy, his wife Vicki and caused the death of one of their own agents through their overzealous and illegal attack. Freedom of religion means nothing to those who worship no one but themselves. I get so angry when I read about this, it stirs up so many bad memories. Those involved in the attack should have been charged, convicted and jailed. They are murderers.

  58. wizzrdofaz says:

    Thank you also for speaking the truth Jon.

  59. ad astra per aspera says:

    Whew! What have you been smokin! That’s some stinkin theology you’ve got there! Are you the guy on “Shepards Chapel” who claims Eve had sex with Lucifer in snake form? Totally false. Whoever gave him enough money for tv time obviously dosent have any left. “A fool & his money are easily parted” to quote the Bible

  60. Just a thought. People reading this would do very well to read the article at the following link and pass it around. It points out some things I have said and written often. Most people seem blind to these issues though. This link is as follows:

    Again, please check this out and pass it around widely. The only way we will have much chance of preserving our republic is if we can become a nation of doers, not watchers. Thank you.

  61. Edward j Smail says:

    We need an American up rising and will call it American spring and put Joe the plumer as president i bet he could dop better then what we got now!

  62. Great article Gary. Clearly not everyone understood the point. The example of David Karesh was not used as an example of a freedom fighter taking on the government, but as person who chose to resist the governments encroachment with violence. Pbama's used as an example of somone who does not like our present form of government and feels oppressed, but instead of taking up arms and storming DC he toke the non-violent route and used the opportunities afforded by our form of government and is actually producing results. Don't misunderstand me I am not a liberal and I do not support Obama's ideology at all nut jas had some success. Everyone seems to treat the government like they are an all powerful being who will be able to do what ever it wants and it is not. Lets not forget the words of Gamaliel in Acts 5:33-41 to the council when they were plotting to kill the Apostles for preaching the gospel who said if a work be of man it will surely fail but it the work be of God it cannot be destroyed. The government can resist God all they want their plans will fail no matter how close they seem to winning. Our founding fathers only resorted to violence when all lawful and peaceful means were exhausted and they have wisely created a government where we still have non-violent means of resistance. It will work if we just use them. Obama is proof of that who when resisted complains because he can't get everything he wants passed despite having everything he needed at the beginning of his presidency.

  63. Sniper3450 says:

    We only know of the abuse through hearsay evidence… What proof do you have, other than BATF and FBI banter that this actually occurred? Here in Texas we had a similar event take place at the FLDS Church which DID have documented evidence by the Cultists themselves that eventually led to the takedown of the leadership of the Compound. Texas Rangers and Local law enforcement raided the compound and removed the children without the use of heavy artillary and heavy weaponized troops. It was resolved over a period of time without bloodshed or needless deaths of women and children.

  64. TruNews with Rick Wiles.
    The RobertScottBell Show.
    The PowerHour with Joyce Riley.

  65. Imperatively Critical !!

  66. i don,t know were you get your facts.but there are over one hundred and fifty million firearms of every type in america.so if this musmutt/ovomit/lucifer trys his marxist bs here.they will wonder what fell on them.alot of servicemen will not go against the american people,some will a lot won,t..we the people love our country,and hopefully it will come to a peaceful conclusion.with bible in one hand and protection in the other hand.god bless all american veterans and all american citizens.semper fi

  67. I'm with you, Daryl. I will not stand by and allow a cabal of misfits to remove the freedoms my counutrymen had fought and died for. We are free now because men and women of America gave their lives to defend our Nation. If we let these miscreants take away our freedoms and suppress us into slavery under the rule of a One World Government than those who answered the call in defense of America died in vain. So, if a time should ever come that we must bear arms to preserve the freedoms given to us by all who stood in the gap I will answer the call once again as my Dad did during WWII.

  68. You won't get any arguement from me, Troublemaker. Evil has taken control of our political system. The corruption in our government is beyond comprehension. They have sold their souls to the devil for power.

  69. Guy Johnson says:

    Koresh didn't want a war and tried multiple times to defuse the situation, but it wasn't to be he is awakened one morning to the sounds of his dogs being dispatched and footsteps on the roof sounds like it is time to shoot or join the dogs. He followed an almost daily routine that took him out of the compound unescorted he invited the ATF agents who were watching him over for some friendly range time I have read pages and pages of testimony and haven't found any conclusive proof of the things he was accused of where is the proof of pedophilia or the possession of fully automatic weapons, was Koresh a good guy i don't know was he attacked unnecessarily on the basis of a warrant issued on false ATF statements this is certain. It was a cold premeditated massacre of American men women and children.

    As for Obama here is a guy who considers himself a deity perhaps god himself, if I were the next president my first order would be seize him. Here is a person who is not legally president even if he was telling the truth about his birth he still wouldn't qualify, he has circumvent the Constitution at every turn, He has provided aid and comfort to enemy's of our country, he has siphoned billions of dollars to his union supporters and campaign contributors he has ignored the will of the people at every turn and on almost any issue you care to name. compared to him Benedict Arnold was a saint. Obama should be arrested tried for treason, theft, malfeasance of office, voter fraud and with a history like that he he may not willingly vacate the white house just for the fear of what may lay ahead, and if he can stuff enough ballot boxes with the ballots of the dead, illegals aliens, felons, and Disney characters he may be able to claim he was elected again. The next time I will tell ya how i really feel.

  70. Guy Johnson says:

    Koresh didn't want a war and tried multiple times to defuse the situation, but it wasn't to be he is awakened one morning to the sounds of his dogs being dispatched and footsteps on the roof sounds like it is time to shoot or join the dogs. He followed an almost daily routine that took him out of the compound unescorted he invited the ATF agents who were watching him over for some friendly range time I have read pages and pages of testimony and haven't found any conclusive proof of the things he was accused of where is the proof of pedophilia or the possession of fully automatic weapons, was Koresh a good guy i don't know was he attacked unnecessarily on the basis of a warrant issued on false ATF statements this is certain. It was a cold premeditated massacre of American men women and children.

  71. Our founders wrote the 2nd Amendment, not in fear of our fellow citizens – but due to the very real possibility of a Government – grown out of control.

    Obama, since day one, has sought to divide us, to pit one against another. The Left against the Right, the African-Americans and Latino's against the whites, the Christians against the non-believers – everyone against the Jewish people… now, it's the women against the men!

    In three short years – we've been reduced from the 'melting pot of the world' … to a simmering cauldron of hate filled rhetoric…. at the hands of ONE MAN! Never, have I seen a president show such obvious outward distaste for a large segment of 'his constituents' and our rule of law.

    Out in the streets of our cities – Obama's Army of union and OWS mobs are preparing for their American Spring. Some say they're washed up – I hope so, but I think you'd be wrong.

    I'm a live and let live/help your neighbor kind of gal… but…anyone who says they'd NOT protect their family from harm – for fear of NOT appearing Politically Correct – is NOT someone I want to live near.

  72. Bill McCroskey says:

    Robert, I don't have any love for the criminals in D C I made one statement of fact and that was the percentage of residents (note I did not write citizens) that pay no federal taxes. I see no command and control structure for us in the us versus them scenario. I think many will follow orders and the snitch brigade is being assembled as I write this. An underground resistance is a absolutely not impossible but will it be effective against body armored enforcers in urban assault vehicles? Hopefully I will never know that answer. I appreciate your ideas and patriotism.

  73. markusdecarcus says:

    What should we do? Sit and wait for them to disarm,incarcerate, and exterminate us and our families? You're going to die anyway, why not fight the beast?

  74. I generally respect and support Mr. North. However, he appears to suffer from the SINGLE most pernicious human flaw of all time: seriously defective knowledge of human history!

    So, I have a question for Mr. North and all those who agree with his sentiments in this article:

    "Can you identify any person or group of fallible, corruptible humans anywhere on Earth, who can be trusted with exclusive access to firearms?"

    If his answer is no, then the obvious next step is to reiterate the kinds of circumstances that justify armed rebellion: a desperate last resort to defeat tyranny that is impervious to all other means of redress — all of which were attempted first.

    Does anyone believe that such a dark time will never come again in America?

    Pray for peace and liberty to do any harmless thing without friction from government.
    But also, be ready to defend our God-given Rights in any way neccessary.
    Better to have it and not need it, than to … weel. You know the rest.

  75. Dr. North has the right idea…. We can add to David Koresh a whole list of other names of people who took up arms for what they thought was the right idea – Jefferson Davis, John Brown, Robert E. Lee, Sitting Bull, and thousands of others. What did they accomplish? What did they win?

    The US Revolutionary War was only the beginning. Only one in three Colonists took up arms. The rest were indifferent or "United Empire Loyalists". If violence was the answer than the Americans needed more than thirty percent participation.

    After the British quit much work remained to be done. A lot of people worked very hard on ideas, their own labors and influencing others to build the United States. Lots of changes. Peaceful changes.

    Jefferson made his remarks about the "tree of liberty". The French took him at his word. For their trouble they got Jacobin terror, followed by Napoleon. The US had Shay's Rebellion, Fries Rebellion, the Whiskey Rebellion, Dorr's Rebellion and then the War between the States. In each case the Government WON.

    John D. Rockefeller did not take up arms against anyone. He hired people to spread his ideas. He imported ideas like Accreditation, Nature worship, and so on. Aside a few violent episodes Rockefeller used ideas and money. So did JP Morgan. Their ideas rule our nation today.

    Obama with his simplistic ideas and gimmicks accomplished more than Koresh. He'll retire with a big pension and spend the rest of his life justifying his ineptitude. Meanwhile Koresh is dead with the survivors writing his history.

    What the Establishment wants more than anything else is an insurrection. They'd be justified forever in the minds of most folks.

    What the Establishment fears more than anything else is being irrelevant, not mattering, nobody going along with them because their tired old ideas don't work any more.

  76. Considering Dr. North used Koresh as an example of "don't follow his example," I don't see how using him was "a terrible way." The main point is this:

    First, win the moral fight. Then, the one with arms will be ten times easier. So easy that you'll have to win.

    Here's another point: the Christians had no intention of taking over and sustaining the Roman State, and yet, by 600 AD, Christianity was the undisputed Master of Rome. It was not accomplished by killing all of the pagans.

    It was accomplished by not joining the pagans in their self-destruction.

    The easiest way to win a fight is by not participating in your own self-destruction.

    "Nothing has ever been accomplished in the the history of mankind that did not involve bloodshed, at least not for the betterment of mankind." you say?

    Tell it to George Westinghouse, and Nikola Tesla. Unless you think electricity generated by turbine, and the industrial refinement of aluminum, "accomplished nothing."

  77. It seems like clinton was a sex feen and a murder he killed alot of people while he was in offace his day will come so will Hillary they will pay for what they have donethey might have lots of money and power but they cant take it with them when they die and then they will face God

  78. Bill McCroskey says:

    Well put.

  79. Amen, that is the truth, and for all of you fools who believe otherwise don't come crying to me when it goes down because I will be defending my country against these communist pricks and taking them out!

  80. It is going to take us all, everyone doing what they can just like it always has been, there is strength in numbers our military numbers under 1 million and of those maybe 30% will act on orders to attack Americans we will over take them with numbers probably i n excess of 40 million armed pissed off Americans!

  81. Ron Ilbrink says:

    COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER!, Read the Declaration of Independance!! Most of what our nations founders argued were Biblical infractions committed by the liking of England, only now the king hails from Illinois and previous parts undisclosed.

  82. You've got Your head in the sand, Gary. In a country where dead people are allowed to vote, extreme measures may be the only reasonable alternative. I don't think that armed resistance should be our first choice or even our second choice, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY RULE THIS COUNTRY SURE ARE AFRAID THAT THEY MAY BE REMOVED BY IT!!! Why do You think the Second Amendment is constantly under attack? And if the ARMS of the powers that be are so invincible, why are they so afraid of Free Citizens possessing arms?
    MEMBERS OF THE ARMED SERVICES: Remember Your oath to defend the Constitution. There is no enemy of Freedom greater than this law-breaking government. We don't need a revolution: We need a Restoration of the rule of Law by any means necessary: civil disobedience, angry protest, and even more Jeffersonian measures if need be.

  83. Ann Wilson Kingsley says:

    @lilbear68: We do not live in that time in history. People who are arming themselves are fooling themselves. We live in a world where Drones can watch your every move, and you can be tracked by a chip in your cell phone. At least some of the unmanned Drones in the Middle East are guided by pilots in New Mexico.We already have a phenomenally expanded Police State. When the Police State decides to strike, it will confiscate all weapons. If you do not succumb to the orders, your house will be bulldozed in the ensuing search. Wise up, and vote for the philosophy for Our Founding Fathers, Libertarianism. Vote for Ron Paul to end "Big" government and the Police State.

  84. Even worse the rule of King George III came close to being Libertarian rule. The Americans of the time era rebelled against the slightest laws and taxes. The colonial American paid no more than 1% before the Revoulution. Compare that to today's Fascist state where people simply dicker.

  85. Where does this lucifer thing come from?

  86. What type of resistance would you have recommend to the Jews living in Hitler's Germany?

  87. toothful says:

    Tell us Gary,
    When would YOU determine it to be righteous to exercise our most precious GOD-given right – the MEANS of protecting all of our other rights and liberties, as well as the Constitution – The Second Amendment? What is ink on paper apart from the means to back it up?
    Do you believe that self defense and the defense of liberty are justified? Will you timidly consent to being enslaved by fiat? Is there no time or season for war as far as you're concerned?
    Have you no "sword" as our Lord instructed? Will you not be a part of His warring army at the end of this age? There will be BLOOD and a lot of it (up to a horses bridal!). The "beast" will make war with the true Saints – they will resist and may be overcome for a short while, BUT, in the end our "RIGHTEOUS" Lord (The Prince of Peace) leading His beloved warriors will win the final battle!

  88. SumerianMan says:


  89. SumerianMan says:

    “The thing that separates the American Christian from every other person on earth is the fact that he would rather die on his feet, than live on his knees!”. George Washington

  90. Why is it so hard to understand the plain English of North's articles?!

    He is NOT advocating anyone give up their means of self-defense. He is NOT saying that Koresh was out to get the feds; he is NOT saying that there may never be a time when self-defense by means of firearms is necessary. He is NOT saying anything against a true Second Amendment militia.

    He IS saying that thinking you can out-shoot the government is folly. He IS saying that people who think they are a militia and could resist the military powers of this government while playing "war games" or target practice on weekends are deluded.

    He is NOT contradicting ANYTHING the Founders said. He IS contradicting what passes for "patriotism" this day and age is misguided and suicidal.

    He IS saying that the better part of valor is discretion: bide your time. Keep your powder dry. The financial collapse IS coming, SOONER rather than later, and it will bring most of that state military might to YOUR side. When the government can no longer feed, house, and supply the troops, and pay for maintenance of the machines and other equipment, THEN is the time to boldly step out and simply ignore the flailing, defeated, irrelevant government, and instead of shooting up anyone, build, for the first time in history, a society based on the first and most important principle of FREEDOM, SELF-ownership and SELF-government of every single individual human being, with NO rulers. Then we can really, in truth, follow a Christian path: do no harm to no one; ONLY self-defense is permissible, and then only if no other means might effect a better outcome.

    No one has the right to rule anyone else; there are no human beings qualified to rule other human beings.

    And by the way, if you believe you're going to participate as a righteous Christian in the bloodshed described with such horror in Revelation, please read VERY carefully Revelation 19. Please note what weapon(s) the vast armies of heaven wield. And who wields any weapon at all, and what that weapon is.

    Before you go misinterpreting "go and buy a sword" as meaning that you can initiate lethal force against anyone for anything, please learn what that Greek word used in that passage actually means, and what Jesus was actually saying. When the disciples showed Him they had two "swords," what was His response? "That is ENOUGH!" Then during His arrest in the Garden, when Peter attempted to "defend" Him by cutting off a soldier's ear, what did He say, angrily, to Peter?

    Did Peter EVER use any weapon except His Master's against anyone for any reason afterward? Consider this, as well: Saul, the Temple Guard, who requested a commission from the priests to pursue and exterminate the blaspheming followers of Jesus, only became St. Paul when he personally met the Risen Lord and went AWOL.

    He never looked back except with regret for the blood on his hands. And he became the most prodigious missionary of all, so much so, that at one of his trials it was declared that he had "turned the world upside down" for the Word.

    If only we would strive to live up to those true heroes of the true Christian faith, we would not be in this situation, or in this discussion, nor would there be so many here who cannot seem to understand the plain meaning of the words Dr. North used!

    I'd like to know where in Genesis 9:6 God says anything at all about who "should" shed anyone's blood in any context. Where does anyone see a mandate for capital punishment — without adding to God's own Word? Please?

  91. Mr. Young says:

    What Gary did imply was that George Washington was a Koresh-minded person, and that the American colonists should have stayed as far away from him as they could.

  92. Please quote exactly where anything approaching such an implication is located in anything Dr. North wrote.

    On the other hand, what if Washington and the British colonists had stayed away from war? Was it, after all, absolutely necessary? And for what? Where are we now, with the Constitution they wrote the way they did? All that happened was that one form of oligarchial mercantilism was traded — with costly blood — for another. And here we are today — with a far worse state than Britain would ever become.

    Otherwise, can you please address the biblical issues I raised? After all, if you claim the Name and Authority of Christ, what other authority can rightfully claim you?

    If you are not a Christian, then everything dealing with the Christian faith is moot between you and I.

  93. So killing someone makes you a man?

    Why, exactly?

  94. Can you compare for us the U.S. government today versus the Britain of today, and draw some intelligent conclusions from that?

    In other words, our MUCH WORSE tyrannical oligarchical mercantilist government today makes George III of 18th century Britain's version benign.

    The only time violence is ever "necessary" is in self-defense, not mass murder committed for another man or group of men — which necessitates PAYING for it with the fruits of our own labor and property and lives. If we'd all realize that, we'd have freedom and peace.

    Government — British, French, African, Chinese, American, South American, etc. ad nauseum — is ALL a CON!

    And we love it!


  95. It's shocking, and you don't want to think it, but it's exactly the facts: "those who answered the call in defense of America died in vain." WWI and WWII were phony and designed to curb freedoms and up "revenues." Do some history research; learn a little more of what is the reality. Taking away our freedoms started with miscreants far earlier than the current crop; they laid the groundwork for these.

    Every single war ginned up by government TAKES AWAY freedoms, and these are NEVER returned.

    Since our wonderful "war on terror," we have lost MOST of our freedoms; the Constitution and Bill of Rights are trashed. Our children, husbands, other family and friends, fighting "over there" to "defend" our freedoms "here," are instead enabling this murderous state to take them away — in the name of that "war on terror," "making the world safer for democracy," "spreading Christianity," "defending us against radical Islam," "protecting U.S. interests," "[insert your favorite blind patriotic cheer-leading excuse here]."

    So now we have a Nazi-inspired "Department of Homeland Security," and its thug agency, the TSA — and camera, GPS, and drones keeping tabs on all of us; the suspension of habeas corpus, the "authorities" don't even need probable cause, reasonable suspicion, or a warrant to enter your home, vehicle, or business at will, threaten you and your family, kill your dogs, and rifle through and take your property — and they can do it avoiding all the drama, in secret, while no one's home, and you'll never know it until it's too late. At "DUI" checkpoints and now increasingly TSA checkpoints, it's the Nazi "Papers, please." You can't travel freely anymore. And the tax man not only cometh, but GROWETH exponentially, and with more and more "enforcement" and confiscatory powers.

    Do your Congresspeople listen to you? Do they pass or oppose ever-increasing laws criminalizing more and more of every tiny aspect of your lives, according to what you want — even if you think you're in the "majority"? When you vote, does ANYTHING change? Really? You believe your "voice" is heard and heeded?

    So much for mob delusion and mob rule. Don't you feel safer? Do you mind "giving up some freedoms so we can have greater safety"?

    And you think you're going to present arms and fight and defeat this outfit when you finally get fed up?

    Uh, huh.

  96. A successful revolution avoids violence? Know anything about the American Revolution, idiot?

  97. ATK Secures 40 Caliber Ammo Contract with D#$

    Be Very Concerned!


    The American Revolution itself was bloody, it was NOT Ghandhi-like.

    There must be a better analogy than the one this article is based on.

  99. Citizen of America says:

    David Koresh was in town often and easily could have been 'arrested" then. Reno wanted to 'put him down' due to his stockpile of weapons and belief that he could live free under the US Constitution.
    It was unlawful to go in.
    It was Unconstitutional.
    It was murder.

  100. TuckTuck says:

    Excuse me while I hurl…Gary must be using George Orwell's 1984 as his official handbook. Great example of Newspeak.

  101. I agree with you Mike. This country was going along the right path when Biblical, Christian and good strong family values were taught. They were for the most part taught at home and without government interference. Try that today and you will probably be sent to prison and your children to homes chosen by the government.

  102. Lawson4House says:

    He offered a strawman and look at all the responders who took it!